SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The "what else did you look at" comment is the important part.
Don’t believe you looked at everything? I mean, you admitted to what you saw. She didn’t think to herself that you know everything, she was wondering if she was going to have to admit to something more if you had found whatever other thing is.

When I read your post, I thought of the same thing. I felt like she was trying to gauge what you know and how to respond to your inquiries.

OP This is an infidelity site. Maybe there was no infidelity that occurred but the posters here will quickly crucify and label your wife a cheater. BUT there are a lot of red flags that cannot be ignored. Best case scenario for you is that boundaries have been crossed. It's up to you to re-establish it.

I also agree you should re-read everything Unhinged's post.

And I think OhItsYou's following comment is important.

The "what else did you look at" comment is the important part.
Don’t believe you looked at everything? I mean, you admitted to what you saw. She didn’t think to herself that you know everything, she was wondering if she was going to have to admit to something more if you had found whatever other thing is.

This is why I was saying you shouldn't admit to what you know, but instead ask her if she had anything to say. Would she have admitted to being in contact with Marcus and Ines? Now she gets to say it wasn't important to tell you. Also, I absolutely do not believe that Leonor regularly brings multiple changes of clothes to events. Maybe one, but come on, multiple? If you're at an event where it is likely that you are climbing on someone's shoulders, what are you doing wearing a slip dress with a deep-v neckline. Is that what she changes into? None of that makes sense to me.

It's a sad fact, but quite often the type of person who commits infidelity in the traditional sense also disregards their spouse and their marriage and does not openly reveal their interactions with others. I see all of that here. I think it's naive to say de facto that there is no infidelity here. You simply do not have definitive proof of that. Right now, anyway.

I did say that the night makes sense if your wife saw the after party as a business or business networking opportunity. But again, why didn't she share that when she came home? That doesn't fit. And I could see a follow-up business project, but I can't see it as an immediate event where she makes more than her annual salary. More conversations and exploration and a smaller, starter, or trial type project make more sense.

The paragraph that stands out most to me is from the morning following your fight. Your wife was quiet and thoughtful and said she was going but not choosing the job over the marriage and family.

Not because of Marcus, but because this was a major opportunity for her career and ultimately for our family. She reminded me that in 17 years together she had never given me a reason to think she was cheating before this. She said she had never cheated on me, believed my insecurity came from what happened that night, and said she wasn't going to throw away an opportunity because of assumptions. She also said she didn't believe going to the gala would end our marriage.

Particularly the following sentence.

She also said she didn't believe going to the gala would end our marriage.

She had the night to think it over. The following makes sense.

It was just Sofia being Sofia. Sometimes she does exactly what she wants, even when I'm not comfortable with it. Then the next day, she's much kinder and tries to soften me up.

Your wife does not believe there will be any consequences to her marriage or her family if she continues to disregard your feelings and act the way she always has and simply do what she wants. That's a harsh reality. Will there be consequences? What will you do? All these questions are why I think showing restraint and gathering information and evaluating is the wiser choice than having a vulnerable conversation or confronting right away. However, you have done it. It is very difficult, so congratulations. You also have gained valuable knowledge about her mindset.

Have you considered examining her cell phone log? I wouldn't be surprised to discover she knew this guy before randomly meeting him at the music festival

I couldn't find a single piece of evidence that she cheated on me.

Some people disagree with that, but you know your sitch better than anyone here does ... so i don't see infidelity.

*****

I think our collective wisdom on infidelity reaches the level of 'expert.'

But Derk seems to be asking for ... Derk, what help ar you seeking from SI?

As I say, we're experts on infidelity. IMO, you're looking for relationship advice. People are willing to give it, but I doubt that we're experts in that. I'm not.

But really, Derk, what help ar you seeking from SI?

@sisoon

You know you can just stay out of here and ignore this topic?
No one forces you to answer?
It's actually very sad to tell a potentially betrayed spouse to deal with his anxiety on his own and come after the infidelity took place.

@Derk

Maybe you can check your WiFi Configuration? There might be a burner phone or something.

sisoon,

I think your assessment is a bit unfair.

If a person comes on a website for people who have had skin cancer with a mole that is suspicious, people will tell them of their experience. That is true whether it was a cancer problem or not a problem.

Hey, I get it. You don't think there is anything here having to do with infidelity. Your experience with infidelity is not the same as others here. I think you will acknowledge that.

Derk is asking if other people who have experienced infidelity think there might be something going on here. Well, yes. If you're asking, I think there are things that should be looking into for infidelity, if not definite infidelity.

We are a website about that. If you come here, I will give or share my opinion.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 10:06 PM, Monday, June 29th]

Derk, what help ar you seeking from SI?

sisoon, I think it's perfectly clear why Derk came here. His "Spidey senses" are tingling and he came here to find out what the experts think.

You and Bigger don't "see" infidelity and neither does Derk. I don't "see" infidelity, either.

Unfortunately, we all know that if he knew for certain that infidelity occurred we'd be having a very different conversation.

In this respect, I have absolutely no issue with Derk seeking our opinions on his situation and would even go so far as to say that it's within SI's "mission statement" to offer the best possible assessment.

I'll freely admit that my ability to accurately access his situation may very well be colored by my own experiences and what I've learned over the years I've been a member. I do keep that in mind.

What I will not do is dismiss this man's concerns for the simple reason that I know damned well that anyone can be betrayed. If Derk suspects something happened - and, in my humble opinion, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest something occurred - then I'm going to help him in any way I can.

I'm quite certain that Derk is hoping he's wrong about this. But if he's right...

I am glad you did not stay silent and shared your concerns. Do not hesitate to have additional conversations.

In some ways, outside of sex, there is no exact definition of infidelity. And I guess that means we all get to make our own interpretation. For me, saying she is going out with the girls but ending up on another man's shoulders, then partying all night long with more men than women, in a skimpier outfit than she left in... well, that is very close to infidelity no matter how I look at it. It is not respecting you or the marriage at the very minimum. Has she acknowledged that to you?

And that is only what you know happened. Let's say she didnt have sex, I do think that could be true. Of course 95% of spouses who did cheat say they didnt when asked about it. But let's say she didnt have sex. Do you think she danced inappropriately while high on drugs in her skimpy dress? Do you think some guy was grinding on her while dancing? Or slow dancing, his arms around her? Was she skinny dipping in the pool? Or many other behaviors that are filled with sexual tension between men and women. Do people get high and stay out all night with the opposite sex without doing any of that?

Is any of that infidelity? You can decide. None of that is acceptable to me or my wife. But that's us. Imo, your wife should regret doing what you know she did, let alone what she has not told you about yet.

[This message edited by Trdd at 5:12 AM, Tuesday, June 30th]

I second hiring a PI. There's no point in this hemming and hawing about whether she did or didn't, is or isn't cheating. Just find out for sure and put it to bed.

Derk, most of us here have come to this safe space because we're hurting and want to help each other through that pain.

We don't come here to waste our time trying to help you understand exactly what's wrong about this situation while you sit there and joke around about how it's fine.

You're being disingenuous, and if we can't get you to see what's wrong here and take actual action to protect yourself, then you don't need our help. Maybe a shrink, but not us.

From the Guidelines: STAFF ACTIONS: If you have a question regarding a staff action bring it to our attention by using the Private Message feature. Do not question staff actions on the public forums.

In some ways, outside of sex, there is no exact definition of infidelity. And I guess that means we all get to make our own interpretation. For me, saying she is going out with the girls but ending up on another man's shoulders, then partying all night long with more men than women, in a skimpier outfit than she left in... well, that is very close to infidelity no matter how I look at it. It is not respecting you or the marriage at the very minimum. Has she acknowledged that to you?

I agree with you on some points. Her staying at another man's villa and taking drugs definitely crossed a line. But her going out on girls' nights or dancing with another man never really felt like a red flag to me because she has always been like that. Most of the time, she was on my shoulder anyway.

She apologized for staying out all night and for taking drugs, but I don't think that's enough.

And that is only what you know happened. Let's say she didnt have sex, I do think that could be true. Of course 95% of spouses who did cheat say they didnt when asked about it. But let's say she didnt have sex. Do you think she danced inappropriately while high on drugs in her skimpy dress? Do you think some guy was grinding on her while dancing? Or slow dancing, his arms around her? Was she skinny dipping in the pool? Or many other behaviors that are filled with sexual tension between men and women. Do people get high and stay out all night with the opposite sex without doing any of that?

What you said is exactly what I'm thinking. I'm not naive enough to believe everything she's telling me is true. But at the same time, there's no strong evidence of anything happening, let alone sex. I also don't believe she changed her outfit just because she was sweating it could have been because of the swimming pool. She never told me what kind of dancing it was. All I know is that, at one point, they were paired with men.

sisoon, I think it's perfectly clear why Derk came here. His "Spidey senses" are tingling and he came here to find out what the experts think.

Thank you for understanding, at this point I don't the truth but I'm trying to understand the situation Best possible way!!

SI actually helped me tho

Have you considered examining her cell phone log? I wouldn't be surprised to discover she knew this guy before randomly meeting him at the music festival

No, but I checked her Instagram following list. Her account is public, so there's a website that lets you see recent followers and following activity. That group started following her after the music festival.If you mean she also started following them after the festiva

The "what else did you look at" comment is the important part.
Don’t believe you looked at everything? I mean, you admitted to what you saw. She didn’t think to herself that you know everything, she was wondering if she was going to have to admit to something more if you had found whatever other thing is.

I didn't look deeply into this comment but yeah it makes sense. I only checked her WhatsApp and Instagram chats because I thought those were the only ways she communicated or shared things.

Honestly, I found many things there that I wasn't aware of. So, can you tell me what else I should have checked?

I didn't look deeply into this comment but yeah it makes sense. I only checked her WhatsApp and Instagram chats because I thought those were the only ways she communicated or shared things.

Honestly, I found many things there that I wasn't aware of. So, can you tell me what else I should have checked?

Maybe it's time you did look considerably deeper.

You clearly have found things on those apps, that have made you even more suspicious, that you may not have shared here, and that's entirely your choice, however, these are only 2 apps, and there are many more that she could be communicating on, Facebook messenger and Tik-Tok are just 2 every day messaging apps but if she has any of the following then you need to check these to ease your concerns, or not whatever the outcome is;

Snapchat
Kik
Signal
Telegram
Reddit

There are also disguised vault apps which look like genuine apps but have hidden messenger function ;

Calculator Pro+
CoverMe

As you can see there are many ways people can communicate and you do need to see if she has any of those apps and if she's talking to anyone on there.

I will say that constantly playing the detective will become exhausting and will effect you day-to-day. My advice remains, get a P.I. have them do basic surveillance and have them on standby for any "girls nights" or "networking events".

I would also be present at any events she discusses with you, interact and watch how she interacts, especially with Marcus. Some men are so cocky and overconfident that they can't help themselves when it comes to their behaviour towards you if you are with your wife and anything has gone on between them.

Thats my 2 pence worth

Good luck!

I would be checking any other social or chat apps installed, but even more important, I would check the battery usage screens. It’ll show how much battery has been used on each individual app, and even more important! It will also show battery usage on any apps that she may be installing and deleting. So many have been caught by that one little not so well know feature.
If you see something in there using battery that isn’t installed on her phone, reinstall it right then and see what you see.

Does she use an iphone? If so, text messages between iphones, at least here in the United States, do not go through the cellular provider, they go through Apple servers thus the text messages do not show up on your cell phone log. That is something I learned when I became suspicious of my wife. Nothing unusual in the cell phone history when I reviewed the phone bill and I almost let go of my suspicion but thankfully I checked her apple tablet in the middle of the day while she was still at work

She didn't realize her phone and tablet were synced so any messages sent and received on her phone also showed up on her tablet and that's how I learned what was going on between her and her coworker. She always remembered to delete their sexting history before leaving work in case I looked at her phone but I checked her tablet while she was still at work

What would happen if you asked your wife to open up all of her social media in front of you? Everything she uses on her phone, tablet, computer, Etc.

This should not be an issue in any marriage unless somebody is hiding something. I'm guessing based on what you've told us her response would be no. If that is her response then I suggest you start pushing the conversation to find out why she is refusing. To me a refusal means she is doing / saying things that are not acceptable in a marriage.

If at first she says no and then an hour later walks up and says okay, I would assume she deleted everything she did not want you to see. This only works if she opens up everything right then and there

I would also ask for her phone and go through everything. If anything is locked she needs to unlock it while you are holding her phone. IIRC there is a way to hide apps on iPhones.